Archbishop Claudio Gugerotti: “Nuncio is just a bridge”
Archbishop Claudio Gugerotti, the Apostolic Nuncio in Belarus was born on 7 October 1955 in Verona, Italy. He was ordained in May 1982. He has a degree in eastern languages and literature from the Ca’Foscari University of Venice, a license in liturgy from the Pontifical Atheneum of St. Anselm, and a doctorate in eastern ecclesiastical sciences from the Pontifical Oriental Institute. In 1985 he began his service for the Holy See in the Congregation for the Oriental Churches. In the interview to RISU His Excellency shared some thoughts of his service as Nuncio on Caucasus and in Belarus.
Who is a nuncio? What is the essence of the ministry of a nuncio in the Catholic Church?
A nuncio is a representative of the Pope of Rome to the Catholic communities and to the government. So he is a kind of bridge between the local bishops and the local Church and Pope. And he is a diplomatic representative of the Holy See to the local government and local authorities. This is the work of the nuncio. It is very pastoral in that sense that he has to make sure that people perceive that the Pope is near and to convey the desires and expectations of the people to the Pope. And it is a diplomatic role, which, as you know, is very complicated and sometimes also very confidential. The role of the nuncio is a strange diplomatic role. Because we don’t have armies, we don’t have weapons, we don’t have business. But that which might be considered a limitation, on the contrary sometimes provides a good opportunity for mediations for allowing people that don’t speak to each others to speak to each other and for this we need a good quantity of imagination.
Can a lay person become a nuncio? Or only archbishops?
No, only a clergyman that is ordained a bishop when he is appointed a nuncio for the first time. There are representations of the Holy See that are not for nuncios. In that case it is a priest, not an archbishop. For example in Geneva or for example in the World Organization for Tourism. In that case it is not a nuncio, it is an observer, and he is a priest. And in some circumstances it can be also a lay person.
How does one became a nuncio? How did you become a nuncio?
Well, I am a little bit special. Because usually young priests are chosen by their bishops to become members of the diplomatic body of the Holy See. In this case they need to finish their studies, study canon law and live two years at least at the Pontifical Academy in Rome where they learn how to work in these areas. And then they start to be sent here and there as secretaries of various nuncios moving around the world, and then maybe one day they will become nuncios themselves. A tiny minority of people like me has a background in some administrative work in the Roman Curia and don’t have this kind of preparation, that background at the Academy. I was under secretary of the Congregation for the Eastern Churches and at the end of my work the Pope appointed me Apostolic Nuncio in the Caucasus. And I didn’t go to different nunciatures before. I was working in Rome and then sent as a nuncio already to occupy the first post.
Sometimes people understand a nuncio as the highest Catholic authority in the country, is it true? And what are the relations between the local Primate and the nuncio?
The nuncio is a representative of the Pope. When people are so kind to give him respect and veneration it is because they want to give respect and veneration to the Pope. It’s true that the nuncio has the precedence on the other bishops if they are not cardinals in the country. But you know, precedence is not a very good Christian word. The Gospel says that the one the last would be the first and vice versa. So this is a protocol. The nuncio is a person who represents the Pope and works everyday with the Church and government. It’s a humble person and humble work. Nothing more than that.
And what is the cooperation between nuncio and local Primate?
Oh it is very straight. I mean, the cooperation between the local bishops in general has to be very strong. Because the bishops are independent, they have their Synod, they have their structures, their conference, and the nuncio often is present at the beginning, usually doesn’t attend the whole conference. If there are problems concerning the relations with Rome, he discusses these problems with the bishops, but he doesn’t interfere in the general life of the dioceses of the bishops. They are the local authority. He is just a bridge.
Does the political situation in different countries influence the activity of the nuncio?
Definitely. I mean, a nuncio in Morocco has a completely different life than a nuncio in the United States or in India. The number of Catholics, the number of dioceses, the local political situation – all these things have a strong influence on the work of the nuncio. He needs to be able to adapt his role to the situation of the country where he lives.
A general question. What were the challenges and positive moments of your being a nuncio in the Caucasus? And few words about how you become a nuncio to Caucasus.
That is a good question. I became the nuncio in the Caucasus because before becoming a priest I graduated from the University of Venice as a scholar of Armenian studies. Then in the Vatican I kept the responsibility of that area, and at the end of my responsibility in the Congregation I was sent by the Pope to that region as a nuncio. So it is one of the few cases when things are consequential and logic. In general, you know a nuncio is sent where they think that he can work better but has no specific connection with a certain country. Also because we are moved: I was in the Caucasus, now I am in Belarus. We don’t spend our whole lives in one country; it is different from bishops. Bishops are local and if they are moved, they are moved somewhere else in the same country. We are not moved somewhere in the same country. We are moved to other countries or to other areas of work.
And what were the challenges of being a nuncio in Caucasus?
Three different states, with three different situations. Georgia is a very interesting country with a very alive historical life in the it last period: the Rose Revolution, problems with Russia, not easy situation with the Orthodox Church, they attempted to smooth and to create better relationships, and had no recognition of the Catholic Church. And we got the recognition of the Catholic Church, which was a good diplomatic achievement. Armenia is a country very friendly to the Hole See, ecumenically very open. There are again some political difficulties within the country, but no particular trouble. Azerbaijan is a Muslim country with a very tiny Catholic minority – four hundred people. But they are succeeding in having a kind of bilateral agreement between the Holy See and the state concerning the status of the Catholic Church in the country. My residence was in Tbilisi, but I moved every month to two other areas.
You did not have problems between Armenia and Azerbaijan?
No. I have a diplomatic passport. But the border between Armenia and Azerbaijan is closed. There is nothing you can do. You have to pass through Georgia. No possibility. From this point of view there is no problem, it is not possible simply
And how was it for you to serve in different countries which have unfriendly relationships between each other?
Well, this is something very challenging because you can try to with small little services, small little things, to facilitate communication. Because you a neuter and you are considered not part of the conflict, so you can have some roles in facilitating, smoothing troubles and difficulties between the countries. It is a possibility.
But in general the attitude toward the Catholics is positive in those countries, yes?
It depends. In Georgia it is the most compex. In Armenia it is not particularly difficult and in Azerbaijan the community is so small that it doesn’t create problems.
Now we move to Belarus. What was a difference between serving among Caucasian nations and a Slavic nation?
You know Belarus particularly is country where you feel totally European. You don’t have this perception that it is a crossroads of different influences and cultures – Persian, Turkish, Russian, Latin – which I felt in the Caucasus. It is quite more complicated.
Belarus is simpler. In this point of view, it is much easier the impact of my native culture on their native culture. There are differences of characters naturally. The Caucasians are very alive, they shout, they drink. They drink together; they drink in Belarus as well. But in a different way. And that culture is quieter, smoother, more confidential, less outspoken, and less ready to show emotions. These are the most specific differences that I found in the atmosphere of those areas.
The cold attitude of the Europeans to the Belarusian authority is well known. How did you enter into these new conditions?
You know… You usually do not enter, you just look what happens and try to be useful. It’s very difficult because when there is no way of communication, it’s very heavy. You perceive that sometimes people speak two different languages. It very difficult for them to understand each other. So, when this happens, it’s always very unpleasant. Because you can have troubles between governments, but inevitably it becomes also a trouble between people. And when troubles between people are created, it is very difficult, so it is hard, tough work.
How is it possible for a nuncio to stay neutral and not to take sides?
It’s impossible. The nuncio takes sides. But he takes the side of the people (not only the Catholic people but people in general). A diplomatic person works for the good of the country they are in. And the good of the country is the good of the people. Whatever situation might happen, people do not have the duty to pay for this situation. People are not guilty of anything. Our efforts are to show the people that the Holy See is near the people and we try to do our best to facilitate the communication with other people
President Lukashenko invited Pope Benedict XVI to visit Belarus. Is this visit possible and what is done in this area?
That doesn’t depend on me. My predecessor worked on this, but they haven’t decided anything yet. The schedule of the Pope is very busy.
Will you be happy if the visit of the Pope happens during your time being the Nuncio?
Of course, I would be extremely happy.
You are visiting Ukraine regularly since the ’90s. How is the country and religious situation changing?
I am not an expert. But I see that there is a very strong religious feeling among Ukrainian people. They naturally ignore any expression of violent opposition toward any religious creed. The changes I see: organization in the Greek Catholic Church, certain organization in the Latin Church here, and some troubles among the Orthodox Churches which are not solved yet. This makes the religious situation in Ukraine one of the most delicate in the world. Of course the religious situation often depends on political factors. But certainly it is not easy because the whole history of Ukraine is in a way summarized in these religious problems: problems with the West, problems with the East, and all this is reflected in the present situation.
You were and are working in countries which are dominantly Orthodox. Does your ministry presuppose ecumenical initiatives?
Definitely, the indications we receive from the Pope always is to try to build communication and a dialogue with the Orthodox Churches. And certainly the main task of the nuncio is to work in this direction. It’s part of the diplomatic mission.
You worked in the Congregation for Eastern Churches. How do you see the role of the Eastern Catholic Churches in the Catholic community and what is the future?
The role is to bring the witness of the Eastern world into the body of the Catholic Church. Oriental Catholic Churches are absolutely not second-rate churches. On the contrary, as Pope John Paul II wrote in his letter Orientale Lumen, they are a fundamental part of the manifestations of the Church: traditions, liturgy, prayers of the Eastern Churches enrich the Church Universal. In a way the role of these Churches was the anticipation of the union of all Churches. Now we see that it’s more difficult than we thought. The mentality changes, but certainly the role of Eastern Churches is just to bring its witness of tradition.
You were the one who brought the Good News to the Ukrainian Catholic University (accreditation of the theology program by the Holy See). How do you see the evolution of this institution?
My impression is that the very idea of the Ukrainian Catholic University is a formidable one. This means that the future of Ukraine is youth and to work with young people is to determine the future of the country. So the specific contribution of the Ukrainian Catholic University is appreciated by the Church because it is strengthening the Christian witness. It is also appreciated by the lay people because it is a way for young people to increase the conscience of their duties, their possibilities, and of the need of their contribution to build a better Ukraine based on values of solidarity, honesty, and transparency – things which are very important for this country.
Anatolij Babynsky and Mariana Karapinka (May 2012, Lviv)
